A Life of Service

An Interview with Music Therapist, Mr. Joseph Pinson

By Nancy Hadsell

This interview can be seen and heard in the video or read, click the video or see the text below the video.

 

Nancy Hadsell: Good afternoon. Today is May 22, 2009, and I'm Nancy Hadsell here today with music therapist extraordinaire, Mr. Joe Pinson, for an afternoon interview. Mr. Joe, you’ve been a music therapist for a very long time, serving more than 20 years at the Denton State School as a clinician and many years here at Texas WomanÂ’s University as an educator/clinician. What have you found most rewarding about your work in these arenas?

Fig. 1: Joseph Pinson

Mr. Joe Pinson: I think the most rewarding thing is the responses you get from the individuals you serve, and that would include not only the clientele that IÂ’ve served through the years but also the students that have been part of my classes here at the university. For the most part, theyÂ’re genuinely grateful for what you have to offer, and I think music is the catalyst that makes it possible. If I walked into a room without my music, people might not be so grateful. But to have music as a foundation for a relationship makes it very worthwhile. As I say, IÂ’ve just received such genuine joy and compliments from the people IÂ’ve served, that has been the most rewarding thing.

NH: Do you see any trends in the music therapy profession that are important for the future of music therapists and/or their clients?

JP: Since IÂ’ve been involved in music therapy these several years, weÂ’ve seen the development of music therapy in the public schools. I remember when I first started working in Denton we had no involvement like that. Now we have some significant presence in the Denton schools and in the other area schools, which includes not only credentialed therapists but also internship programs. I think thatÂ’s very promising, because many of the youngsters served in the public schools cannot always benefit fully from the special education services. They do benefit greatly from the involvement with music, not only to help them learn and develop, but also to improve their self esteem in situations where they have some significant disabilities to deal with. I think another area that has developed during this time is our work with seniors. The senior population is larger now that it ever has been, and itÂ’s predicted to become even larger in the coming years. Seniors are folks whose quality of life has diminished greatly from their working years, so theyÂ’re not only dealing with the disabilities that they may encounter, but theyÂ’re dealing with the impact of this change. I think many times music can have a significant effect in helping them cope with this transition.

NH: Can you relate your most memorable moments as a music therapist—maybe pick one or two?

JP: I think the most memorable moment when I was working at the Denton State School was during the annual Christmas pageant. Mary and Joseph are supposed to come down the aisle of the chapel on the side, and there are three inns. Joseph is supposed to knock on the door, and the innkeeper is supposed to say, “No room!” One year Mary and Joseph started down and they knocked on the first door. The guy comes to the door, and Joseph says, “Do you have a place for us to stay?” Then the guy says, “Come on in!” It just about blew the whole pageant. The funny aspects are the things I remember the most. Of course the memories that also last are in terms of the music therapy work. I remember one young woman diagnosed with profound mental retardation who was referred to me for her piano playing. I listened to her the first time, and she just plunked a few notes here and there on the keyboard so I wasn’t too impressed. But they were very persistent. She came back a second time, and this time she plunked a few notes on the piano, but then she hit a perfect diminished chord and she began to go up the keyboard in half steps in diminished chords. Try that some time and you’ll understand it’s not an easy thing to do. I knew I had a person who had spent time at the keyboard. I came to find out that she had perfect pitch and the ability to follow harmonies around in different keys--just a very delightful young woman. I’ve had similar experiences like that where persons with significant cognitive difficulties had extraordinary splinter skills in music, and that’s been very rewarding.

The Denton Bell Band (www.bellband.org) is a community-based organization comprised of persons with developmental disabilities. Joe Pinson is the founding director.

Fig. 2: Presenting certificate to member of Bell Band

NH: Have you found any aspect of your career to be particularly frustrating and if so, describe a scenario or an event, and tell us how you would like to have solved it or did solve it?

JP: At the State School, it was frustrating to try to implement some sort of program that would be carried on during the week between music therapy sessions—things as simple as getting out a tape machine and asking the person to listen to the tape for a few minutes. There were situations where, not only did they not get out the tape machine, but after a couple of weeks, the tape machine disappeared. It was frustrating not to be able to have some follow-through there. I think in the university situation, I find it generally free of frustrations, but of course, we always have the over-riding documents and evaluations of the things we do, which are necessary for the university to be certified to teach these courses, but yet it seems like a lot of time is used pursuing those various guidelines and reporting on those. It’s not a major frustration; it’s just one of those things.

NH: Less time with the clients and students?

JP: Yes.

NH: Can you tell us about individuals who have particularly influenced you in your life as a music therapist? Who were they, and what did they give you that challenged and uplifted you?

JP: Well, when I was in my twenties and in the Navy in Washington, D.C., the base was only a few blocks from St. Elizabeth’s Hospital, which at that time was the largest mental institution in the United States. I volunteered to do some work there. I knew nothing about music therapy, and they hooked me up with the music therapist. I learned a great deal from him—his name was Mr. Gibbons; I’m sorry I don’t remember his first name. I learned from him about the level of understanding and compassion that you had to demonstrate toward those folks. I was not, however, at that time motivated to move in that direction as a career because it seemed like it was a revolving door for many of their programs. The recidivism rate was like 95%. It didn’t seem like any of the therapy programs were getting a lot done. But anyhow, that first experience was very useful to me in that it was an introduction to music therapy. In the 70’s I was between jobs and looking for something to do, and someone told me that I should meet Charles Eagle. I took them up on that, and I came to Texas Woman’s University where Charles was at that time head of the music therapy department. Charles and I hit if off really well. He understood my need to find employment; he also understood that I had some skills that were relative to this sort of employment. So those first few years Charles sort of took me under his wing. I’ll be forever grateful that during some of that time he was as much counselor as he was teacher. I realize that that’s somewhat of a dual relationship, and yet Charles was able to handle that. He was able to give me instruction and also give me some good advice about things that I needed to do. I’ll be forever grateful about that.

NH: Mr. Joe, in addition to being a superb clinician, you are also an ASCAP composer, a textbook author, and a performer. How do each of these other aspects of your professional life inform your work as a music therapist, and what do they add to the quality of your own life?

JP: Well, I think in terms of composition, every music therapist should, if possible, learn to compose at least to a certain extent. You’re going to find the need to write songs or melodies—things that are useful to your clientele. From my textbook the definition of music therapy is, “Music therapy is the treatment of the total individual through planned personal interaction and the manipulation of the musical environment.” We know what planned personal interaction is. Manipulation of the musical environment means just that. We may have to take existing songs or literature and modify it to meet the needs of our clientele, or we may have to write something new. I’ve told students, “If you’re faced with a situation where you don’t know the music of the clientele and they don’t know your music and there’s some sort of disconnect there, one solution is to write some brand new music which is sort of a bridge between the two”--music that will be comfortable for you and music that will be comfortable for them. So composition has probably been a thing that’s made me a better therapist. I have a master’s degree in composition. That sort of background has helped me very much through the years.

With regard to the textbook, that was something that came about accidentally. Dr. Don Michel had written a textbook, which had been in use for several years. His publisher asked him to do a revision on that. Don and I were sharing an office at that time because he was in semi-retirement. He asked me to assist him with that revision. We got into the revision process and finally decided that we don’t need a revision—we need a new textbook! Between the two of us, we put our ideas together. It was a very interesting process. It was certainly a learning process for me; I think it probably was for Dr. Don too. There are even parts in the textbook where we couldn’t quite agree on things, so we put our opinions on two sides of the page. In some categories this is what Don said and this is what I said. We encouraged the readers to come up with their own positions on these things. We had a lot of fun doing that. It’s since been translated into Japanese. We’ve been told it’s selling very well in Japan. We don’t get direct royalties on that. The publisher sold the book to a Japanese publisher. Anyhow, that was a thing that came about. What was the third item—composing, the textbook, and what else?

NH: Performing—Mr. Joe, the performer.

JP: Mr. Joe, the performer, came about because I write unusual songs. They border on comedy—my take on life’s situations. I shared a few of these with students, and they told me that I should take these to the open mike. I didn’t even know what an open mike was. I followed their lead and went downtown to one of the places that had a weekly open mike—that’s where people just show up and perform their thing and get some audience response. That started five or six years ago, and I don’t think I’ve missed a week since. I find it very good to get audience reaction from songs. I also find improves my ability to perform in front of an audience – and yes, music therapists are performers. We perform every time we’re in front of a group. It’s not performing for the sake of performing. We have goals and objectives and a music therapy agenda, but we still have to perform in a manner that’s convincing to our clientele. Every time I go onstage at the open mike, it gives me more experience in performing for people and feeling comfortable about that. This idea has progressed to the point now that every semester all the students in the advanced practicum class go down and do the open mike. There was some resistance to that at first, but now I think it’s one of the favorite things they do. We make a social event of it—we go down and listen to one another sing songs and really have a good time with it. They get valuable experience of finding out whether they are really comfortable in front of an audience or whether they need to improve their comfort level. So that’s how Mr. Joe got started.

Fig. 3: At piano in recording studio

PinsonÂ’s Chihuahua Song was recorded on October 28, 2004, in the Performance Hall of Texas WomenÂ’s University. Sidemen are Richard Cartwright (trumpet), Andy Cooper (mando-bando), Les Huey (bass), and Jim Staercke (drums). See Movie from oldmisterjoe.com [wmv]

Fig. 4: Pinson was in a Beatles skit for a fundraiser show a few years back. The other man and he were part of a number based on the BeatlesÂ’ song "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band."

Fig. 5: With band members

NH: Have there been stages in your career—times when your focus was on one aspect of your work and later that focus shifted to something else? If so, what was that transition like for you? What were the challenges and rewards, and how did you find a balance?

JP: Initially, when I began the work at the State School, I really started as a part-time choir director. I wasn’t a credentialed therapist at that time. My involvement was just getting to know the clientele and learning how they learn and learning so much about the things that they were not able to learn. It was initially a process of getting to know them as individuals. I think that takes a while. At first we had in-house performing groups. We had a choir, and we had eventually a handbell choir and a percussion ensemble. The thought never occurred to us at first to take these ensembles into the community. When I was first out there, the State School was pretty much a city unto itself, and we really didn’t cross those boundaries very much. But once we began to adapt the music, to write new things for the clientele—things that they could perform and do with credibility in a way that an audience could understand--we began to take them into community settings. So the first stage would have been learning about the clientele and what they could do. Then were would be the stage of developing performing groups that would not only perform on campus but go elsewhere. It was about this same time that they developed the State School Music Festival. It was not developed here in Denton; it started in San Angelo. That was also another opportunity for us to take folks out to another area and perform for other people and see how what we were doing measured up with what other music therapists were doing.

The transition at the university probably hasnÂ’t been as great as it might seem. I do teach a couple of practicum classes, but for the most part my work to date has been in the field doing the kind of things I did for many years at the State school. The difference is that now IÂ’m accompanied by students and itÂ’s more of a combination of a therapy session and a learning situation for the students. ThereÂ’s been a little transition there, but not as much as I might have anticipated.

This introductory music therapy video was produced and directed by Ms. Annis Leung, a graduate student in the media department at the University of Texas, Dallas. She is a friend of a Texas WomanÂ’s University graduate music therapy major, and wanted to let the general public know more about music therapy. She visited TWU numerous times, interviewed music therapy faculty and students, and videotaped a couple of music therapy sessions that Mr. Joe led, with the clients' permission.

NH: Mr. Joe, you have served in many capacities within the American Music Therapy Association and the former National Association for Music Therapy, including as president of your region and as an assembly delegate. What do you believe has been your most valuable contribution to the profession of music therapy in these capacities?

JP: I’m not sure that I contributed greatly in the organization of the association. I know that my service as president of the region was probably the least memorable tenure in recent history. However, I want to say this about the association—I’m certainly here today doing what I’m doing because of this organization. The association through the years has provided support—has provided educational experiences—has provided the things that I have needed to develop as a music therapist. I’m not sure about the value of my contributions to the association, but I’m quite sure about the value of the association’s contribution to my career.

NH: Where do you see the profession of music therapy in 10 or 20 years?

JP: I think I see what we’ve experienced in the last several years—slow but steady growth. I think the association still needs to work very hard to educate people about music therapy and what it is and what it can do. I know that we’ve fought the good fight in Washington, hoping to be part of federal guidelines regarding funding for music therapy. I’m not sure that’s ever going to happen, but I’m not discouraged about that because I know that where we haven’t found federal funds and federal guidelines, we have found school districts that would employ music therapists using funds dedicated for alternative services; we’ve found nursing homes and corporations that work with seniors who have funded music therapists as a quality of life part of their corporation. And we live in a very affluent society so that nowadays, if a music therapist wants to be in private practice, there are a lot of parents and families who are able to pay for those services. I think our future is very bright. I think we’ll continue to have slow, but steady growth. I think we’ve moving in the right direction.

NH: Is there anything else you would like to share with our music therapy community about your life and work as a music therapist?

JP: As I said before, I came to music therapy from a background in music composition. It was once my desire to teach music theory at the college level. Looking back on my career as a music therapist, IÂ’ve learned so much about so many people and done so many interesting things, I canÂ’t imagine having nearly as much fun teaching theory.

NH: And half the students donÂ’t want to be there anyway!

JP: Right. I feel very blessed that at some point in my career that path toward theory glory did not happen and that I was spared that and given the opportunity to do music therapy. ItÂ’s certainly been a life-changing experience.

Fig. 6: Sara is Joe's wife of 42 years. They have two children and four grandchildren, all living within 30 miles of his home in Denton, Texas.